What causes a person to be intentionally cruel? Is it carelessness? A genetic predisposition involving a lack of empathy? A lack of proper nurturing? A culturally indoctrinated tendency?
In my search for answers to the toughest philosophical questions, I find myself being enlightened in the most unusual ways; and often, by the most unexpected people.
The other night, I was watching a show called “Scared Straight“, in which young offenders and troubled youths visit hardened criminals in prison in order to get a taste of criminal reality. One the convicted felons said something that stuck with me because of its poignancy. He said, “Hurt people hurt people.”
There are so many ways to interpret this: I got hurt, so I’m going to hurt others. Pain is all I know, so what else can I give? I have so much pain, I have to get rid of it onto others. Others deserve to suffer because I did. I had no choice so why should anyone else? I don’t want to be alone in my hurt. I need to share it.
Desperation is the common thread.
Any feeling felt strongly enough is a feeling that imposes the desire to share it. When you are in love, you floats. You wish to shout from the mountain tops about your potently bursting feelings. The same thing happens when you are in pain, and perhaps, a potently bursting negative feeling deserves no less tribute. In any case, human beings have a social proclivity towards sharing feelings.
In the case of hatred, anger or violence, the emotion is often so horrible and powerful that the person feeling it wants to get rid of it, and since the emotion is so volatile, the expression of it tends to be as well. In addition, even if on some deep moral level a person knows that hurting others is wrong, the compulsion to eradicate the bad feelings, on a psychological level, is prevalent. The need to not feel intensely negative all the time overrides the need to walk a moral or ethical path.
In essence, I think it is very likely that the act of imposing pain on others might be merely symptomatic of overflowing negative emotions. Every person has a threshold for pain; the breaking point is when the dam of self control breaks and the pain floods out. I would go so far as to say this a survival mechanism we are born with.
Adaptationist thinking about physiological mechanisms, such as the heart, lungs, and immune system, is common in evolutionary biology. Evolutionary psychology applies the same thinking to psychology, arguing that the mind is a modular structure similar to that of the body with different modules having adapted to serve different functions. Evolutionary psychologists argue that much of human behaviour is the output of psychological adaptations that evolved to solve recurrent problems in human ancestral environments.
We are biologically programmed to survive. Psychologically, when a person feels fearful and hurt all the time (due to inappropriate neural networking, a person can feel threatened by even things and people that are no threat to them in reality), fight or flight syndrome kicks in and puts them in offensive mode.
To take this point further, if a child is born into an abusive life and learns nothing but abuse, pain, fear and intimidation, they will not only be conditioned to think that this type of feeling is normal (in other words, the nurture side of things conditions them to believe that this is the way things are), but they might also feel an even deeper conditioning based on the biological and social need to connect with others to share what they have experienced. In essence, if the method of connection is created in a chaotic mind, it often presents in a chaotic or harmful way. This is where is gets really interesting for me as a philosopher.
If human beings are deprived of meaningful social connection, studies have shown they tend to become hateful and violent, even insane. So in a way, inflicting, imposing or sharing their negative emotions on the world and those in it is a way of sustaining and connecting with what remains of their humanness. It is a (perhaps psychologically deviated) method of touching the spirituality of human being itself that in reality, a violently abused child, for instance, may have never actually experienced.
In life, I have little sympathy for people who choose to hurt others simply because they are in pain. But this does not stop me from wanting to understand why people deal with their pain by sloughing it off onto others.
I believe all overcompensations, psychological chaos, hyper-emotional states and unreasonable decisions are made due to an imbalance in the mind, caused either by bad nurturing or a lack of connection to nature. Without a good balance of both mother nature and nurture, ego is allowed to drive the bus, when it should be sitting at the back of it, forced to be quiet while the metaphorically and sometimes annoyingly cheerful possibilities of happy driving songs echo through the mind.
With the ego at the wheel, anything is possible. Without properly established boundaries, human empathy and natural connection, “anything” is usually pushed into the chaos of ubiquitous darkness. Without the emotional equipment necessary to build appropriate caring relationships, in the empty vacuum of the human soul, one will create something else. That something is typically highly emotional, as there is perhaps an even stronger emotional desire to be met, as it never was met properly, but emotional in a way that is inappropriate, hurtful or intentionally cruel. But again, underneath even the worst intentions is perhaps the simple human desire to be a part of something else: To share an experience with another. To connect.
To say that hurt people hurt people makes sense to me. But what of unhurt people who hurt people? How do we explain the fact that some people with great lives, great upbringings, lots of love and opportunities, in some cases, still seek to impose harm on others? What of all the hurtful games in society, the lying, the cheating, the bullying, media intimidation, idle gossip and voyeuristically bizarre reality television shows? Have our minds become bored with survival (as in developed countries, anyway, we have all our basic needs met), and thus, we need something else to occasionally push our minds into “fight or flight mode”, in order to feel alive?
I think it might be just that. Human beings are bored with the five-senses world and have pushed it into the heights and depths of depravity and debauchery out of boredom for something more. I believe that people lie to themselves about why they do what they do as a way to deny that they are in fact propagating the parts of themselves they do not wish to see, and further, to mask the fact that they could be much more if only they looked.
To avoid all sorts of pain, we hide behind lies as a way to avoid the fear of “the truth”, whatever that might be. We lie to hide nefarious intentions and perceived emotional insecurities and ineptitudes that we feel ashamed of and/or do not wish to face. But even without nefarious intentions behind self delusions and lying, there is insecurity. Insecurity is ego’s loud and brutish voice, which shouts to us in our weakest moments to act and react in ways that will have the greatest impact.
To lie is to hide inside of ego’s belligerent “right story”. To propagate the delusion of the importance of “me” is ego’s only purpose and it will fight to the death to maintain itself.
So, cruelty is perhaps rooted in ego’s need to survive and propagate, instead of in our “being”. But no matter what the reason, I find these types of behaviours self-mutilating. Facing the ugliness inside is not worse than lying about the fact that it’s there, in my opinion. Never mind the fact that our personal and subjective ideas about “the ugliness” we need to hide or lie about is in many cases the result of some ridiculous story that ego clings to out self-preserving desperation. Or, in the case of a person born into horrible circumstances, the “ugliness inside” was something imposed that is not truly us. Ego would have us believe otherwise, of course, but with right intention, any mind can be rewired. Every person can take the desire to be intentionally cruel and transform it into something ego cannot even touch, let alone understand.
“It’s better to light one candle than to curse the darkness”.**
References
* Confer, Easton, Fleischman, Goetz, Lewis, Perilloux & Buss, 2010; Buss, 2005; Durrant & Ellis, 2003; Pinker, 2002; Tooby & Cosmides, 2005
** The motto of the American Christopher Society (founded 1945), said by the Society to derive from ‘an ancient Chinese proverb’.
Photo Credit
Image by Pierre Peetah @ Flickr.com. Creative Commons. Some Rights Reserved.
Peter Randrup says
I’m concerned about my oldest sister’s behavior, For a numer of years she’s because increasingly selfish. If she’s asked to help someone the response seems to depend on how she benefits from helping. If you repeat yourself or tell her something she already knows instead of “You already told me that” and a laugh, it’s the same phrase as a snarl. It’s like she’s angry you’ve wasted her valuable time. It’s as if only what she wants or needs matters. Last year she [and her husband] were supposed to help me move one floor down into a new apartment. She knew 2 months ahead and joked it gave them time to arrange to have the day off to help. She never indicated she had a problem with it, We discussed the move a number of times. All seemed copasetic. 2 days before the move she said ” I won’t be helping you move on Monday. It’s a work day”
I was Gobsmacked! We both knew that from day one. She made excuses and grudgingly agreed to help move furniture. Took me 11 hours on day 1 and 10 hours on day 2 due to being overweight and having a bad back and cleaning. Found out from my other sister that her sis went out of her way to make sure I had to do it alone. To teach me a lesson? She never even asked her husband to help.
That someone would intentionally be cruel to another human being [brother or not] and have no remorse is what truly concerns and disturbs me, That’s NOT normal! That she didn’t see it as cruel and therefore wrong, smacks of an actual psychological problem
Chris says
Thanks for reminding me “Hurt people hurt people” I watched one scared straight episode.
I came here to find out why a man who. hurt me could do such a thing, this helped. Much appreciated.
Mary Rose says
You are welcome. I am doing my best to offer anything I can to transmute the pain that exists here.
Stan Gregg says
Very interesting article!
Bee says
A scar is left when you knew you did nothing to wronged to that person(s) yet still they continued to hurt with intentions leaving marks you’ll remember. Even to your poor belonging things – they’ve scratched it for a scar. What sort of wisdom these type of person(s) tend to hurt you while you did nothing just as in a way of nothing to cause any harm toward them? As if they enjoyed harming innocent ones and the worst thing, you didn’t even knew the person(s), in a sense that you never had a close countered ever after all ! That’s why I believe – fake people made life’s cruel!
Anonymous says
I disagree with most of these comments. First of all some of these people are too nice, and should know that it only makes sense to forgive those who are absolutely worth forgiving.
The kid on scared straight, when he said “Hurt people hurt people.”
That is just a normal mentality for most people from a rough upbringing. The proof is – just look at retaliatory gang related killings.
Patti Tilden says
I am the oldest of 4 and we had the most violent and abusive father. The effects of his behavior still shows in and on all of us. Our reactions are split. One son and the Golden Child daughter are mean, cruel people, like our dad. The other brother and I have suffered more by his actions yet the 2 of us are positive and basically honest people. I ask myself why. I taught 5th grade for a year and conducted an experiment for my class to experience “so-called racism”. The results were staggering and it’s something that I would not repeat. I had the class count off as a #1 or 2. That AM, the #1 group could make mean statements to the other group being discriminated against. Nothing physical was allowed and we had our classes as usual. After lunch time, the groups could switch. Absolutely NONE of the victimized group chose to participate at all. They agreed that the discrimination they’d felt was NOT something that they would do to the others EVER!! So, the hurt kids refused to hurt others even when they had permission to do so. It hurt me to see the effects of this, so I apologized to the kids for conducting this experiment. It ended up having a profound effect on all of us and flies in the face of you premise here. I do believe that your statement is true for some but not all. My 5th grade class and the difference in 4 siblings tell me so. To this day, I have great difficulty understanding how some people can be so incredibly cruel and mean to other people. My mind just does not naturally go to that kind of thinking.
Isa Stralian says
We, each, are the sum total of our experience at any point in time in our lives.
At some point when viewing our life, in the metaphorical sense, as being a building that provides all manner of things, some good some not so good, the question is whether to stay, or leave the building and live as one imagines life should be led.
This of course requires a clean cut from those things you wish to disassociate from in your future life and unfortunately you also leave behind those things you would otherwise be reluctant to lose.
To reconstruct a life in the manner you desire demands total belief and commitment.
Easy?…no it’s not easy as you are having to learn from scratch.
Rewarding?….Very! …..depending on how dedicated you are to the dream
Cassidy says
I do not watch the show that y’all are talking about but that is irrelevant to my reply. Somebody saying “hurt people hurt people” you think is just a normal mentality for people with a rough upbringing. It sounds like you’ve been watching too much gangster paradise, boys in the hood, don’t being mean to society movies or some crap. Yeah everybody I will admit has a different idea of what a rough upbringing is now that I will say. I was born with physical problems and had to continuously have surgeries due to a neglected mother which at the same of course came along with an abusive stepfather whom didn’t leave marks. Still I wasn’t taken from them I was abandoned being left on my grandma door step for her to take care. Whom I thought was over protective I was so far from wrong try a controlling miserable toxic horrible person. Who made sure to remind me every day starting at 7 I was a burden & my on mother didn’t want me. My grandpa’s I thought of like a dad used me to see another woman working at a kids place yes I still hear about it. It was like a pawn in a game of chest till I left going back 2 my mom please husband have left her she was depressed so I took care of what I could at 13 while trying to have a social life falling in with ppl society would have considered upper class just to be set up drugged & rapped by 15. Now at 39 I’ve had probably 10x worse done to me. And before that there were other things that happened I couldn’t type think it would take me all day and probably would be a book point being I don’t find that to be your typical upbringing and I never had a mindset to just go out and purposely hurt people for kicks or sorry I mean because I was hurt not someone anything of course! To take up for people that they see being done like they were. Right now you’re saying that because I had a rough upbringing my mentality should they go hurt people because I was hurt? That’s crazy & as far as retaliation gang related killings go that’s not proof and someone being raised in a horrible upbringing I’ve had my fair share of problems with gangs 1 mostly. And I won’t say I didn’t think of doing something to that effect after what was done to me cuz I had nothing to do with my upbringing. Just like my poor little cousin who was a spoiled little brat who had mommy, daddy and both sides of his family ppl. Who gets in a gang, trouble, goes to jail gets out to my grandparents giving him a truck & blah blah blah. And yes he played a part in some crucial things hanging out with a gang. But as I said the whole gang thing might have the effect as far as why someone would get into something like that coming from a bad home but as far as what they do when there in it. Ain’t nobody going to tell me that comes from a bad up bringing no that comes from trying to look like a bad A**..
I get so tired of hearing everybody tries to make excuses for anybody that does something wrong if the parents fall they were raised wrong. My step daddy started putting my head in my own vomit in the toilet at 4 years old I wasn’t going to say that b/c I know how much people like to try to say others are lying but I really don’t give a s*** I know what happened to me and the point is that’s something I never forgot but I didn’t go take a gun & blow his head off because of it. There are people out here everyday children being beaten, neglected emotionally abuse causing tremendous psychological damage. If all of them decide to retaliate because that’s their mind set SMH you think the world’s bad now yah. You sound like somebody who either had it made or can’t or want grow up & take responsibility 4 some horrible things you may have done. Which I feel like it doesn’t really matter what your mind set is if you got the B to go out & purposely hurt others then get enough B to reflect on what you’ve done. Okay I probably shouldn’t said all that & maybe this won’t even be submitted I already feel bad for saying the things I said I hate being that way. I can’t apologize for how I believe but i can apologize for speaking my mind. It may came out harsh cuz I got irritated but I’m not rewriting this so if I made u feel as if I was talking down to or trying to make you feel stupid I truly am sorry. As 4 any other feelings that I may have made you feel I don’t apologize for but those I do. If this goes through thank you for letting me express my opinion I do agree with a lot of what you said & hope everybody has a nice day! 🙏
Cassidy says
I could barely see in the box what was being typed so some of that came out pretty messed up that I still believe that most people would be able to understand what I was trying to say they want to fix so I just had to apologize and make it clear I couldn’t even proofread this before I sent it I guess it’s my phone I don’t know. And I commented way too much sorry.
Thuy says
Thank you Mary for your article. I am in the process of exploring myself. I don’t know that I have been so hurtful and have had lots of pain during my childhood until I grew up and got married and had a very young child die. I later went to find the reasons. When I discovered more about myself, I realised that I have been so insecure and hurtful that I have always denied and hidden from it, that I lied, disrespected and hurt the person who showed me his love and care. And I became depressed and fearful all the time of even vague reasons. I have lived in fear. Now I read your writing and I realised more clearly that I acted that way because of my insecurity, of the vulnerability that I never want to face, and I let the “ego” control, to show off that I am powerful, I am strong. But the truth is I am vulnerable, very sensitive, and have a very negative mind full of fear, guilt, jealousy.
Thank you that I have a chance to express myself. And I wish you all the best in life.
Mary Rose says
Hello:
Apologies for the late response. And you are so welcome. Time has been different for me lately. Perhaps you have experienced this too.
I have been assimilating so much of my own experiences and what I have learned and have been in a sort of isolation period. A self made ‘time stop’ so to say.
I expect to be out of this long sabbatical and to be posting some more writing again. Please feel free to contact me if you’d like to share.
I respect the process and trust it. Discerning the difference between ‘what is ours’ and ‘what we thought was ours’ takes a lot of courage, self-determination and strength. And I send all of those to you.
Gdavis says
Well said.
A cut is a cut. The scar is the reminder. We dont from survival instinct, allow ourselves to forget the situation which caused the scar. That scar made a memorable change in our behavior(s). Most will not allow it at any cost to happen again. I believe, when recognizing something that reminds people of the scar, that character of, “That will never happen to me ever again,” causes some to act out by being hurtful. At the same time they feel proud they stood up to it. Thus feeling the negative, “reaction” is justifiable.
Mary Rose says
True
jerry garcia says
I am so tired of abuse by people who then claim to be just “kidding” its not even funny.Why do people think they can just say whatever the hell they want towards me ,then blow it off as an un- intentional joke,or slight .In the last year my father has passed away, my dog died 3 mnths prior, and my girlfriend of 3 years left me with no explanation. ALL this in the year 2016, so yes I am slightly emotional and on edge but I honestly feel as if I have a sign which says kick me hidden to my view, which only the rest of the world sees.My girlfriend started e-mailing me just days before my dad who was 78 passed away, she showed absolutely no compassion about my loss, and it was all about “her” and how she felt .I was in serious shock and mortified by my fathers passing as he seemed to be very well and fine right before he died.It almost seemed like the devil had come back to kick me one more time, while I was down but not quite out when she returned.She ,then told me that she couldn’t be bothered by my affairs and stated she would be moving to Paris France to be with her new lover, and that it was over between us , but we could remain friends!! Seriously?? Wow, friends like this , who needs enemys, but I do wish her the best.Yeah right! BITCH…. Anyway women can be just as emotionally cruel, my mother gleefully helped with my fathers funeral as she had been divorced from him for quite a while and seemed happy about it, that was disturbing, needless to say I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist and been on several medications for depression since, when I told my mother one day I felt like tying a rope to a tree in my back yard and killing myself, she just laughed and said ,we all get those thoughts and seldom do people act it out when they speak of it.God help me….Why do I attract such insensitive, narcissistic a-holes for partners I wonder??
Erin says
I am SHOCKED at the sites that paint me as a criminal (even SEX OFFENDER was mentioned as a possibility). They ask for money to see a report of lies. The truth is, I have ZERO criminal record, and I’ve spent my life helping kids in need. I know I would WIN FOR SLANDER by lawsuit. Right now, I’M weakened by Injustice and the cruel irony that they are smashing a GOOD person. I am so sad.
Christine says
Because you are trying to heal your pain from your childhood- subconsciously. There is a book called how to get the love you want- Dr Hendrix. It is for couples, but I found it helpful for self growth.
Mary Rose says
Thank you.
Valerie Cadogan says
I had a bad experience when I was just 14 yes old a outsider who is a family member crossed the line of disclosing something about my mother who was physically abused by her stepfather and conceived me and another sibling it was very hurtful to find out this way now she want
To be friends years later I keep away from her because she caused me other hurtful lies I could not get over the fact this girl had the balls to disclose this to me I forgive her but it took years of felling pain I say away from her I still don’t get why people can’t mind their own business this world is full of sadistic and psychotic people it still haunt me but if God can forgive me why should I worry about what others think it’s been a struggle
Mary Rose says
Hi Valerie:
I am glad you commented. This writing thing tends to be therapeutic. Your words punctuate that most important line: The line that people cross, as if they own the right to your story … the lack of reason why others seem to be entirely unaware of their own behaviour, their actions and the consequences of both, continues to elude me.
Years have gone by since I wrote this, and I am still grappling with the topic. I have received some new insights and appreciate your comment as it echoes those new insights. Sometimes it feels like we are here to heal ancestral or familial wounds .. even those of others .. by virtue of the fact that we are able to feel and forgive. It feels as if there is some kind of twisted destiny at play. Perhaps I feel and think that as a means to manage the lack of sense this all makes; like a way to make myself feel better about the fact that the pain and cruelty of others (even if only in the form of lack of awareness about the difference between theirs and others’) seems to be a perpetually fed stream in the consciousness realms.
To forgive is not something we can just do, is it? It takes enormous courage and self-reflection and if done, it has to be real. Not just words. So, for what it’s worth, in my opinion, you are both courageous and far larger than the pain that attempted to capture you. This is no small feat.
But this pain we feel from this imposed and foreign feeling cruelty and indeed, sadistic psychopathy … it seems as if it is more than an idea pathogen … more than a cyclical pattern or even a genetic propensity. It seems to be something else to me. Like a possession of sorts that attempts to predate and seep inside the vulnerable, sometimes making itself seem seductive, glamourous and cool. Other times, it just dumps a truck on you out of nowhere. The media would have us believe that this is normal: That it’s cool to be a sadistic, evil asshole, essentially, that obsesses over greed and ‘owning’ others emotionally and otherwise.
I have come to believe more and more that this whole is a giant pattern and we are here to choose which patterns we embrace. So many seem to have become settled in the sense that being either a victim or a predator are the only options in this strange world. They do not have the courage and penetrating discernment to call their own egos out and to see the darkness within as a training ground, which is how I see it.
Instead of seeing that they are comprised of light (literally in terms of physics) – by virtue of being here – and are capable of harnessing and growing that light (in your case, finding it yourself to do what you needed to do in order to comprehend the why of it), instead of falling into utter despair over the sense that it’s simply not enough amid all this darkness. I know this darkness: This deep, anxiety-riddled and sometimes alluring sense that not only will I never be able to truly see the five w’s inside this multi-layered thickness, but that I perhaps not designed to.
Why are we capable of communicating about this pain? Why are we able to see it but not be it? Why are we able to reach out in the darkness and continue to find the courage to believe that we are not alone in our seeking … our seeking to discover ourselves – as we truly are in a loving, kind and real way … despite myriad reasons to simply throw up our hands and say, ‘Fuck it. If no one else cares, why should I?’
What I have discovered is that it does not matter if it seems no one else cares. First of all, that is simply not true; it is just how it appears sometimes due to our tendency to metaphorically focus on the one nail head out of thousands which is not hammered in perfectly; flush with the medium it finds itself in. Second, even if it were the former that only punctuates the fact that those who do care have enhanced special excellence. Even if they do not entirely see themselves, as I often do not, as that impressive or special at all. Third, if one has the ability to care, forgive and not become the hate that seeks to make this separating hate the ‘new normal’ one is here for a reason. One has a meaning and a purpose that goes beyond anything that could be evaluated by typical means.
Our most precious currencies – time and energy – have the most worth and value yet they cannot be bought. And to use these – despite all external or even internal (as in the form of addictions, etcetera) attempts to abuse, devalue and use us as if trading commodities – to enhance love, self-knowing and the power of the innocent and pure wisdom seeker, is to become a Master of something which indeed, not too many have the courage to even consider or truly contemplate.
So thank you. For being the light. For doing what you are doing, to practice and master something for which there is no guide book.
Mary Rose says
Hi there:
Thank you for reading, and for sharing with me.
I apologize for my late reply. Not sure if you’ll even see this or if my comment will still be relevant.
Recently, I have had to, unfortunately, re-visit this topic. But I am kind of pleased to do so, as every word we share brings more light to things.
After many days online, and months sifting through my ‘stuff’, thinking and researching, I realized two things: Perhaps this will resonate with you.
1. People are attracted to those who are (perhaps on a subconscious level), capable of ‘taking care’ or ‘taking away pain’. Those with massive hearts, and gentle souls. Some call them empaths. Whatever one might call them, they are those who cannot help but emulate, present, feel and practice those very human skills that make us … electrically sensitive. Alive.
What makes certain people feel alive is, unfortunately, siphoning energy off others. Maybe their own internal source is ‘dampened’. Who knows. Some are outright malicious in their intent. Some are unaware of what they are doing, but instead, acting on instinct or conditioning. But it does seem to me that those who seem to be literally overflowing with that which another might be lacking in … well … like a moth to a flame, as they say.
In short: We are conduits – all of us – and I suppose some of us are akin to electrical plugs and some are like outlets. I make no excuses for those who are cruel, or outright use and abuse others, but do continue to attempt to understand the ‘why’ behind it all.
In any case, we are wise to discern and to know how to clearly put down ‘electrical’ boundaries.
2. i HAD TO see the possibility that if I am attracting a certain type of person, that there is some part of me that is ‘conditioned’ to do so, and in a sense, therefore, am ‘choosing’ these paths.
And why the heck would that be? Why would I be ‘programmed’ or choose to put up with anything damaging? And who programmed me that way? Hmm. I’m looking at the bigger picture now … Maybe ‘who’ doesn’t matter. Maybe naming it gives it power, and takes your power, time and attention from what truly merits these latter things. What matters is that a very pertinent and powerful thing has been brought to light: Us. The question askers. The seekers.
I refuse to believe I am simply a product of conditioning. I am a result of choice. I have to be. Otherwise, I really am powerless and that kind of thinking makes me feel as if ‘what I get is just my lot in life’. And yeah, I’ve been guilty of that type of thinking. But it’s nonsense, especially in the context of people who have been mistreated.
I think we’re all a product of both nature and nurture. But my point is: There is great power and a sense of self which can be found by focusing on one’s own journey. One’s own light. One’s own passions and love. That which is generated from the inside (and yes, that which ironically and unfortunately attracts ‘leeches’); not from that which can be circulated within a relationship with another.
That must be established first: That great caring and love we long for from others in the outside world … that must be created, nurtured, honed and practised in self under all conditions, and especially, in my opinion, prior to looking for ‘the one’ that is outside of ‘the one’ that is you.
In the wake of separating from anyone who is draining, cruel, overly self-centered, or toxic, you WILL begin to feel better. It’s like magic. All the mind spin stops. And even better perhaps, is that you will have a newly honed skill: How to more aptly ‘feel’ and sense when a shark is circling, from miles away.
Hope this makes some sense. And I hope you’re doing okay.
Lo says
I can not stop reading. You are making me so aware of the whys in my life. I pray for strength to let me heal and the ability to keep toxic people out of my life and head. Thank you
Mary Rose says
Thank you. I have been writing a lot but not submitting any new pieces. But your comment has pushed me to do so. The realizations and insight that have come to light in this year have been .. clear. It seems that once you recode your neural networks and focus on expanding the ‘5 w’s’, things become incrementally clearer, and also, more questions present. Deeper ones. Like quantum dendrites growing off of the ones that are already there.
You’ll see some more of my work here soon.
Anonymous says
Your not alone I understand completely and can relate, stay strong
Anonymous in North Carolina says
Thank you for your article and your forum. I was the oldest and only girl born to a woman addicted to men, sex and money. I was singled out as the family slave, (think Cinderella minus the happy ending), subjected to unspeakable terrors both physically and emotionally, cleverly indoctrinated to believe that if I told anyone the truth of my real circumstances “she” could and would make me disappear… forever. And with all the comings and goings of her many husbands, (I quit counting at 12 step-fathers, although one did turn out to be kind to me), and boyfriends, I still desperately tried to make her love me. I did not realize the depth of her utter hatred and jealousy of me and it has cost me dearly. I was shot in the head at 11 yrs. of age and somehow survived. I was too scared to tell anyone the truth and to this day all believe it was an accidental shooting by a younger child who was for all intensive purposes too young to talk. And yet I continued to try and gain even one iota of affection from this woman who gave me life and hated me from birth for “Ruining her chances of fortune in Hollywood and thus a excellent marriage with a good-looking man of her caliber”. I eventually ran away at age 14 to live on the streets and to look for my birth father believing he was a good and decent man that must have left me behind only because he was as afraid of her as I was. That he too must have met the monster behind the mask. I found him at age 40 and quickly had my dreams of a loving, caring parent somewhere out there in the world dashed to bits. But I do credit him for his honesty. Unlike my birth mother, he was not a pathological liar. If nothing else, he was an honest Brute. He stated quite frankly he did not want me then or now, nor did he want any disruptions with his career as a Full Bird Colonel, bucking for General in the US Army. And in no way would accept any intrusions in his life that might upset his third marriage to a woman very close in age to mine. Strangely enough this hurt more than all the savageries visited upon me by “her”. I had gone my entire life believing with all my heart he was as much a victim as I was. I say all the above to say this: I have not recovered from these abuses, I continue to choose abusive relationships, (one so severe I was left for dead in an old abandoned barn by my “soul-mate”), I am currently married to a man I continue to forgive for hurting me in many varied ways and yet I cannot even visit the smallest cruelty on any living creature let alone a human being. If anything, my life’s circumstances have left me overly compassionate towards all life around me. And more often than not at the expense of my own health and well-being. I am grateful that I recognize my many defects obtained through design AND choice. At 51, I actively seek ways to truly forgive those who have harmed me AND more importantly, forgive myself. Thank you for this forum to comment on the events of my life that are so hard to admit and write about. Regarding the “Hurt People, Hurt People” supposition; I am that Hurt Person that Hurts “MY” person. As for the birth mother who savaged me… her childhood was magical and full of delightful devotion from all… especially her parents. I’m not sure what to make of that. I guess some loved people, hurt people.
Sincerely and with many thanks,
anonymous in nc
Anonymous CA says
What an absolutely tragic and captivating story. I hope your life takes the turn for the better.
Shannon says
This is such a refreshing article. I thoroughly enjoyed reading each word. This is a powerful piece. Thank you for your time and detail placed into writing and posting this.
Mary Rose says
Thank you so much. I am so glad to have my thoughts on important things read and appreciated.
Robbi says
In order to understand anything, it is crucial to understand the origin. I used to do disturbing tormenting strategies from ages 10 – 14. Interestingly, this is the time where I also witnessed the most disturbing events in my home that were graphic in nature. On a less blatant level, I’ve been ‘conditioned’ to be cruel to others because I was taught this way of life through my sociopath mother. This can’t be an excuse to be intentionally cruel, however. We have the power to change ourselves if we choose to accept it and not be an everyday coward. Unfortunately, we are a by-product of our upbringing no matter how hard we try to deny it. But if we reach to the necessary tools, one can overcome the destructive habits that have been adopted. These tools include charity work, taking the right medications for mental illnesses if applicable, understanding one’s self through counseling, etc.
As far as bullying goes, I almost got killed by a bully in school and then I tried to be a bully shortly afterwards. I even bought a weapon to school after being bullied and I didn’t even want to use it I was just driven towards it because suicidal thoughts and homicidal thoughts are sometimes intertwined. My point is, intentionally cruel people may behave in a evil way in an effort to reconcile their own inner conflict. This can also be applied to people who do good deeds, they may act in a helpful way to reconcile their own inner conflict as well. But the difference lies in the language a person has been conditioned to. If one is surrounded by hate, it becomes their currency used for understanding.
Thanks for reading.
– Robbi
Shannon says
Excellent dynamic.
Disha Mody says
Hello Mary Rose! Great article! Besutifully ecpressed point of views. I agree with your view that the ego is capable of a lot of destruction if given a free hand. I have experienced cruelty in many forms and from many sources in my life.The reasons why people are cruel to people are varied. But, yes, the effects of it can be devastating. The victim of cruely is left with the painful burden of making sense of it, making peace with the fact that it happened, gathering the coursge and will power to still live in the same world, and protecting themselves from such creulty in the future. I have gone through each of the above. After the last step, I gain revisited the first by reading your article. It made a lot of sense. Ultimately, I may have to go through each of these steps many times before I can completely heal.
I think that even after understanding the reasons behind why people behave cruelly, it would still be impossible to predict which people will inflict cruelty on others because we all respond so differently, even to the same set of circumstances. I think that all we can do is to observe with AWE the diversity of experiences we can have, sometimes from the same source.
Mary Rose says
Many thanks.
And well spoken.
Vera says
Beautifully written, beautifully explained. I have finally found an explanation for my 28 year old daughter’s devastating behaviour that has emotionally destroyed a beautiful young man, me and my family.
I generously gave my three children everything of myself. They had what one would describe as a privileged upbringing. My youngest daughter has everything: beauty, intelligence, a good family but also a high risk gene, and an attention-seeking “prima donna” type personality such that with excessive and unwarranted courage and in order to stave off the boredom and with a self-deluding social justice warrior action she went into a manic rage when she did not get a reply to her text from her university lecturer partner and went down to his place of work and tried to destroy his brilliant career.
When I was once in love with my three children this has left me broken as a mother, has devastated my hitherto strong maternal instinct to the point that whilst I love my children I now am no longer in love with them and have sunk into the depths of deep depression. I find myself unable to relate to them in the ways I used to and am now adjusting to a semi-life with them. As the saying goes “the higher we aspire the greater the fall.”
Thank you for your enlightening thoughts on the various reasons for why some people hurt others.
Kathie Jones says
Vera,
You sound a little narcissistic to me. Your children have grown up to become themselves and don’t look up to you like a god anymore. You need them to make you proud so you can brag about them. Your children shouldn’t earn your love and if they felt like they had to please you and earn your love growing up they may have personality disorders. Narcissists, borderlines, sociopaths, codependents and those with self love deficits are created by selfish nonurturing parents. Children are forever seeking their parents approval and if they don’t feel they have it that child will grow up with major issues. Just saying. CASTLEROCKERMOM
Alan says
My nine year old son is a menace. My wife and I have been struggling with our son’s actions since he was a toddler. I would like to think that we are capable, loving and and empathetic parents. Financially, we would probably be considered lower class, but we manage to maintain a comfortable farm lifestyle, that many kids and adults could even be envious of. Life is good, but our oldest son sees it differently. My boy must be in a lot of pain, and he wants to make those around him suffer, especially those of us who love him. He is intentionally cruel, emotionally, physically and everything in between. We are doing everything we can think of to nip it in the bud, but his dark outlook and “need” cause pain to others persists. The “professionals” we have talked to seem to be confounded, and have trouble blaming his actions on mental illness, since he is able to choose when he is cruel. He is an angel at school, It is his immediate family who he chooses to torment. When asked by his school counselor why he is cruel to his family, he said ” because they will love me no matter what.”
???
Bev says
I’m no expert by any means but I wonder if your boy has strong enough boundaries at home. I had issues with my daughter after leaving her father. I read up it and found there are three types of parents who are bullied by their children; guilty parents, overly worried or anxious parents and ‘fix everything ‘ parents. I was all three! Guilty we lost our lovely home and financial security, guilty they suffered because of their abusive father, anxious about everything and overprotective and taking over all their day to day needs and concerns to make up for it all. I pulled back, set boundaries, let go of the guilt ( or hid it!), stopped saying yes to everything, gave them more freedom plus more responsibility and tried to keep my worries about money, their safety, the future, to myself. It’s been so much better, not perfect, but I’m more in control and my daughter seems more settled.She knows I expect her to pull her weight and I won’t give in to guilt trips any more! Good luck.
Gloria Serido says
How can we use this knowledge to change the minds of Isis, of gangs, of violent criminals, of young adults who make bad choices, of abusive parents, etc?
Mary Rose says
Hello Gloria:
My apologies for the time it has taken me to respond. I hope you receive this.
What a tremendous question. Here’s what I think.
When the darkness comes; when the state of things overwhelms me, I close my eyes, and visualize my ‘inner divine light’; like the source of the living hum inside. I connect it in my mind to the center of the earth, and then, as it expands, it feels as if my forehead is seeing from the inside, blinding me in a way to the darkness, and then, I visualize and send that light and love and electrical current outward. Like a growing cone shape, coming from my imagination to everyone on this planet.
Not to anyone specifically, but to everyone. Even beyond the planet; photons and thoughts – brain wave emissions – don’t stop until they ‘hit something’.
The beauty of this technique is that even if all it does is alleviate a single person’s own pain, doubt, fear, etc, and allows the focus to go to something other than mind spin, doing so provides an enormous service to everyone encountered by that person. When we feel better, everyone we encounter will feel that instead of the … other stuff. That helps; to remind ourselves that we have the power to ‘be our own helper’. It’s inspiring to others, even if we never speak of it.
I’ll leave with a quote by Helen Keller: “I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do.”
Tom Hal says
I’d like to address briefly “intentional cruelty” by way of a question about another commenter’s (Lifestar, above) assertion:
“The truth is ‘Others are Not for Us to Harm or Wounded’ [sic] because none of us have any Liberty or Freedom to Hurt or Harm another Human Being!”
Beyond wondering why this claim is “the truth,” as opposed to a personal or even societal value, I am wondering why the proscription of cruelty should be group-specific. Many of us learned about pre-modern cultures for whom “human” (or their equivalent concept) was not a biological term, but rather a clan term. So we’ve evolved our ethical precepts to include not just our clan, but, at least theoretically, all human beings. And yet, we all know this is just an idea–not a universal truth. We only have to read the average online article’s comment section to understand this.
But in particular, we appear to feel entitled to harm other beings when (a) they’re not able to defend themselves sufficiently against us, and (b) we get enough of a benefit from harming them. Why doesn’t the claim above encompass other living beings we don’t have to kill to survive well?
I’m not trying to incite an argument at all. But if we humans–including our governments–can justify committing the most violent acts when these (appear to) serve us well, then this seems to argue against a “truth” that others don’t exist as resources for us to exploit. And more, given that no one thinks his wife or her son who works at a slaughter-house and enjoys her/his work is “cruel,” even though by working they are obviously intending to do what they do, it appears to me that the word “cruel” is a matter of perspective, not something objective and therefore assessable rigorously.
I think we can expect answers to questions like what the emotional and reasoning repertoire of humanity is, what kinds of circumstances influence our behavioral choices, and what neurological and other physiological states accompany certain behavioral choices. But the use of vague, perspective-based words like “cruelty,” I think, obscures finding objective knowledge.
Gdavis says
Well said.
Mary Rose says
Well said, indeed.
Thank you. I will think on this.
Patrick says
I was abused as a kid, got no love, never bonded with parents or siblings yet I am a nice person. I haven’t figure out how to make relationships last with friends or others though. I have a lot of pain from the childhood PTSD but why would I want to impose that on anyone. I grew up without boundaries other than imposed ones, but that never led me to be mean. Finally at 60 I have good boundaries. Still can’t figure out the whole bonding thing.
Love says
Hi Patrick,
Not everyone who is hurt responds cruelly. In your case, you find it hard to “bond.” Research attachment theory. I hope you find your answers, and that you find connection.
Eileen says
What I don’t understand is why a person can be happy and jovial around persons, except one. Why would she target one person to emotionally abuse day after day, when the person she is targeting to inflict constant emotional pain already suffers from Traumatic Brain Injury, but copes well except for the non stop emotional pain. Why?
Lifestar says
It is essentially and completely “Unacceptable, Maladaptive, Obstructive, Destructive, and Harmful” to have Behaviors and Mentality in having to “Have to Hurt or Harm Others” in order for the person(s) to find some sort of connections to society! The truth is “Others are Not for Us to Harm or Wounded” because none of us have any Liberty or Freedom to Hurt or Harm another Human Being! When the harms and/or wounds have been inflicted upon a person by the harmdoer(s), the wounds/harms of the wounded cannot and will not be rewind! With being said, the wounded person’s life will be forever altered or mutated!
— Lifestar
Nathan Sady says
Mary,
The opening surmise of your blog is really quite beautiful and captivating. No wonder for the endearments that followed the entry which is so pervasive and approaches whether social maintenance is an endeavor people will stand by, or attempt to brighten in a satisfying, intrinsic manner (should such exist).
Best to You and where your insight is derived. Nathan
Mary Rose says
So many belated thanks to you Nathan.
I have begun writing again, after a long internal sabbatical of sorts.
Robbi says
If human beings are deprived of meaningful social connection, studies have shown they tend to become hateful and violent, even insane. – Powerful statement, but where is the data? What study?
Mary Rose says
The data is inside the experience.
lefeti says
Woman, I love you already!
Mary Rose says
I love you too! <3
marlowe sand says
Dear Mary Rose,
I wonder how you would understand the cult phenomenon in which the intentions of gurus appear to start off benevolent?
I recently published a memoir, “Paradise and Promises, chronicles of my life with a self-proclaimed, new age Buddha”. One of my reviewers writes: “The book bought me deep into a spiritual community indistinguishable from a cult in which the highest spiritual motives of the people involved lead them collectively to psychological cruelty, torment and abuse. All in the name of freedom. All in the name of following the loving directives of the “guru,” Andrew Cohen. Cohen has since apologized to his collective disciples for the abrasive and harsh regime under which they lived – including the author, who was in the community for almost two decades. Chilling, bracing, edifying, not for the faint of heart, it’s a amazing book for anyone who is curious about what it might be like to belong to a cult that with the best of intentions produced the worst of results.”
Review by Tim Ward, author of “Indestructible You”
Marlowe Sand
lovesflowers says
I wanted to say thanks. My parents were both monsters who took most of their pleasure in life from assulting and depriving me growing up (I bailed at 18 and ran for my life, quite literally), and though I’ve found my way to a meaningful life as a grown up despite them, I’ve always struggled with the question about how they could do what they did with such obvious clear intention. Lots of sites and therapists and pastors talk about forgiveness and such, or profess that bad people don’t know they are doing bad to others because bad is their norm, but my parents knew what they were doing; they openly strategized, and they enjoyed my pain which left me with the question, “How do people INTENTIONALLY commit such cruel acts?” And btw, confronted with their actions they not only smirk and smile in fond remembrance, but they also have no remorse whatsoever. I went no contact years ago for my own safety and sanity.
Phantasm says
I’m sorry to hear that, man. 🙁
I pray you can find peace in life, however possible. Some people are just inherently evil I guess… I wish you the best
estellei says
this is sad you had to endure such an ordeal and you escaped this which I give you lots of credit for. people that are cruel to others have this in them and enjoy watching others suffer greatly. it makes them happy when they see people in great pain. these are very psychotic people that do this and have deep mental problems including being mentally unstable. the best thing to do is run fast and get away from these types. they will drive you crazy as there’s no logic in their thinking.
Kimbely B says
Narcissism develops from being raised in environments by a cruel narcissistic parent or parents and wanting to be loved and accepted, treated well and acknowledged. This creates the next generation of narcissistic individuals. Hurt people, hurting other people.
Beverly Revin says
So very sorry to hear about your experience growing up. When I was studying Child & Youth Care one of my instructors introduced us to a book that I believe you would find quite interesting. It is called:
Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward, Ph.D (published last in 2002 but still very relevant and has great reviews). The main premise is that all parents make mistakes but some actions by some parents are not forgivable; it gives advice on how to move on. I wish you all the best.
Sandy says
Thank you for this article, I’ve just been devastated by a heart shattering relationship break up and feeling terrible and desperate seeking help online. I’m trying to accept it, and in my search to understand some of the personality traits I have experienced, I found your article. Thanks again
Mary Rose says
Dear Sandy:
Thank you for you words. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.
I was only recently apprised that this article had received so many views and comments, which makes me feel like my words and feelings matter. All of our words and and feelings matter…so thank you for yours. 🙂
I feel for you. I am in the midst of an unrequited love thing…ongoing for two years…it hurts, because I am just as much to blame for the unrequited part…I had my heart smashed by a divorce and the man was cruel. I have been on emotional lock down for almost ten years. To feel love again – it is nothing short of miraculous to me, and in truth, what I have experience – the cruelty of others – has made me very very hesitant to express love. Even though I feel it. And it’s amazing.
Love and feeling are the special excellence of sentient beings, and we are gifted, indeed. But it isn’t easy dealing with the pain.
Bless you <3
catherine says
Hi sandy I’ve been there myself in relationship gets better u deserve better somebody will love u treat u nice next time take care
Gary Ockunzzi says
It is our culture, Mary. I’m speaking of mine, America’s. We are a “power-over,” competitive, cut throat, one up culture where winning is part of the DNA of the American Dream. So, meanness, invalidation, etc. go hand in hand with lack of empathy and true bonding with other human beings. I mean, how can you bond with them, if your desire is to “show them up,” be one up on them, get ahead of them, whatever? It is a cultural thing. My guess is that you wouldn’t find this as much in Canada and India as you do in my Country.
Mary Rose says
I would agree. I would also agree with anyone who knows that it is WE who must change this apathetic reality which has been imposed on us. For reasons that serve consumerism, not the people who consume.
Fear, doubt, cruelty, hate, division – all these things serve the filthy bottom line of those who benefit from conflict among the people, and nothing else. We must change this by not serving a Hegelian or Feudal model. We can change everything by voting with our dollar and by choosing not to be cruel to one another. Even when we feel it is justified. In my opinion.
That is another article.
Thank you for your words. I feel you.
Gary Ockunzzi says
There’s one answer for intentionally inflicted cruel behavior. And that is “the presence of EVIL.” You described it right, people that intentionally inflict harm and injury up other people are BEHAVING EVILLY, and influenced by EVIL from somewhere. I feel your pain, as I have gone the forgiveness route, talked to pastors and therapists, etc. Sometimes you just have to vote them out of your life. Walk away if you can, like you did. And, I am a believer it confronting them with what they did, however, some therapists suggest otherwise (don’t let them know that they got to out, it only makes them smirk and get a rise that they got to you?). With me, it’s about empowerment. Are we giving our power away when we confront an enemy, or, are we taking it back? I’m not suggesting retaliation, that’s just returning evil for evil. This takes a lot of thought. I am sorry to hear what was inflicted upon you. If there is some support group (the should be) entitled “Compassionate People,” I’d go to that. Best wishes to you.
Disha Mody says
Dear Gary,
Even in the same house, you will find that people are relatively good to each other in good times, and relatively not so good to each other in times of stress. Behaviour of people is as much dependent on the times that they are going through as it is on their personality and character traits.
marcos montalvo says
This article was right on time, recently I had a taste of intentional cruelty from a relative, the cruel words were delivered to cut deeply and cause hurt leaving me wounded, but not today. I grew up in a environment of abuse, as a child I was unable to protect myself, that changed as I got older, I not only began to protect myself but that same abuse I took to the streets, had to protect myself there as well, while in school I bullied, I am not certain if it was intentional but maybe a way to tell the world you are not treating me like shit, perhaps it was intended , yeah I believe it was.
When my twin brother committed suicide my world was turn inside out, I realized I was an angry young man and hated living in my own skin, with the help from therapy and God I was able to well reinvent myself, I saw that the identity I walked in was a false identity, learn behavior, I knew I had to change or live and die a hurting angry man.
I choose to forgive those who offend me as I would want to be forgiven . I understand we as humans are far from perfect and are broken living in a broken world, but that does not give us license to hurt simply because we hurt. Sad thing for a man to look in the mirror walk away and forget what he’s about. We’re to examine ourselves daily. We may have to live with the consequences but we can change and dance as we were intended to.
Mary Rose says
Dear Marcos:
My sincerest apologies for such a late response. I had no idea that this piece of writing had been responded to until yesterday, when my editor thought to congratulate me on how many reads (and feedback) it had gotten. I have been in deep training, and not attending to writing at all.
Having said that, I am back here now. And to you, I send so many blessings; for your words. For your strength. For your feedback, For your ability to forgive. For your compassion.
I cannot even imagine what that was like.
I too have a twin. And sometimes, I wonder about her. She is far away and often, very sad and alone. If what happened to you happened to me…I am not sure I would able to handle it.
Thank you for sharing this with me, and please, if you wish to start a dialogue, let me know, and we can exchange emails.
Much love to you.
LVJ says
Well ya just like so many people here I don’t really know why some people are cruel when there is no need for it: all I can say is that environment is not the only thing, and that (some) people do it to get a response; other then that I don’t really know.
However I would like to address the way in which you appear to regard “ego”; you see in my experience I have come to see myself, “is” and other life as basically organic machines: as well as otherwise knowing that there is/are reason(s) for every part of us; if there was not some sort of benefit to “it” (whatever it might be) then we would not evolved with it as a part of us. Ego so far as I understand is basically there to try to keep us from “drowning” or otherwise losing ourselves; the question then is how do we function with (all of our selves of cours but in this case) with it? And for a very long time I struggled with this in also understanding that all are equel though all are not the same: and I kept thinking well I know I’m awsome but for that we are all equel so how does that work? Intel I finally realized that YES I am awsome and so is everybody else, no one is better no one is worse we are all equel though we are not the same; because you see what I realized is that there is a big difference between saying that one is awsome and saying that others are worse. And thus the “conflict” was resalved not by shutting my ego up but by “properly” embracing it; as with any other part of the: for again everything of the may not be there for any preticular reason but there is/are reasons for everything of the being there: even if they are not abvious at first.
Christine Medina says
I am experiencing a family member that had a great upbringing to lie and be cruel. I am trying to make sense of what is going on. This article is very helpful and I was hoping there was a way I could get a copy of it.
Thank you,
Christine
casey says
I know of some people who lie constantly on purpose to hurt others, play mind games, to get an upper hand on situations or get back at someone. abusers do alot of this constant lieing along with mind games. I stay away from these types as they cannot be trusted and like to cause trouble / problems for people. it also is defamation of the person and slander. this is very wrong and puts the woman down greatly. they also do it to turn people agsinst the woman. so sad and cruel when people are so mean.
Mary Rose says
Please..copy, paste, share…if anything I have experienced or said can be of help to anyone, please…use it. Much love to you.
morgan says
it’s hard to make sense of one’s way of thinking when they constantly lie and are very cruel. this is normal behaviour for themselves. very abusive and cruel persons they are. they will keep being this way until they get in trouble or are stopped with this abusive behaviour. seems these types have alot of hatred and are very unhappy with themselves.
catherine says
Hi Morgan i agree with u there people like be nasty make it seem all ur fault aint happy with own life blame others take care
Mark says
Great post, Mary Ellen,
I’ve been doing 12 step work around compulsive financial issues, mainly “under-earning” and self-deprivation despite having masters degrees and loads of interdisciplinary skill sets. In coming into the part of the work where we make amends to others, I’ve come to realize that most of the amends I have to make are to myself. I’m really grateful to have seen this post, because it’s giving me a reality check against what I seem to have learned in an abusive family and amongst bullies at school.
You see, I’ve had a number of savage bullies on my amends list, wondering if there was something I did to deserve the unsolicited treatment I received. There “must” have been something I did. Everybody knows that. Well, they don’t, and that’s the part about cruelty that so many of us don’t get – the fact that it lingers on and on, tearing us apart inside for years afterward because we can’t make sene of it, and come to believe that it must be our fault somehow. I too was given the great advice to ignore it and it’ll go away, they’re envious, etc. Bullsh*t. So I was lied to as well.
Even if I had done something annoying to one of these kids to get things started (and I honestly can’t remember having done so, besides maybe just being timid and nervous from all the abuse I was already getting), I certainly got paid back a million times over with the humiliation, shaming, judgment and abuse I got in return.
Your post is helping me to accept that it wasn’t my fault. And that’s the beginning of being able to forgive others at all. I’m human too, and have done a few crappy things in my time as well. But it’s time to let go of the “philosophy” that tells us that inexcusable human behavior is all some punishment from above that we just have to live with because we ourselves are rotten to the core in some unknowable way.
Thanks again.
Mary Rose says
“But it’s time to let go of the “philosophy” that tells us that inexcusable human behavior is all some punishment from above that we just have to live with because we ourselves are rotten to the core in some unknowable way.”
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. This statement encompasses and so perfectly captures the sentiment of what I was trying to say. I’m afraid sometimes my writing reflects my rather long and rambling internal confusion…so when someone says something that paraphrases…it’s amazing.
Thank you for your words.
To me, shame is useful so long as blame has no target.
Linda says
Great post ! I am in an abusive relationship right now, & have never experienced such cruelty meaness, mind games, put downs, threats, & talks to me even when I just ask a question in a very cruel and mean tone of voice. I was married for 27 yrs to a man whom I thought was abusive and finally divorced him, met someone who was so kind, gentle and open, and never met anyone like him, but unfortunately he passed away from COPD and since then dated which I don’t like on and off, met some nice folks and even went out with 2 for a couple of yrs, but they were not abusive at all, the relationships got to a point where we both knew it was time to part. Then I met this man. He was very charming at first, lived in my bldg and we got closer & closer and then he just upped a moved out leaving me up on a mountain(long story & I won’t go there now) knowing I had no vehicle and there was no transportation to get off that mountain. I was so good to him that when he left and moved over 50 miles away I had to rent cars to see him and his car broke down and ran to him like Sparky the Fire Dog so he wud have a car, eventually he told me to move in with him but lived out of my suitcases for 5 months helping him a lot with bills and also feeling as if I was taken hostage depending on him for rides (he leased a new car and lied to me telling me that half of it was mine, but every time I drove it all he did was scream and yell at me, and I have to say I’m a great driver and drove all over the country plus lived in NYC and Fla and know the roads like the back of my hand even in very heavy traffic. We moved to a really nice place one week ago and since day one all he has been doing is calling me names, threatening me, telling me to get out plus my cat is very sick and have taken him to the vet who told me he’s dying from 2 tumors, this cat has been my best friend and buddy for 14 yrs and all this man has been doing is getting worse, and worse with no support for me knowing how much this is killing me plus his severe abuse to me has gotten even worse. I never experienced or have seen such severe abuse mentally and emotionally. I’ve always been an independent woman but because of lack of funds (that’s a whole other story of being too nice) and a family who does not care since I ran out of money, I would never have stayed at all after he left me up on that mountain. He is also a compulsive gambler and all he does now since moving here is watch gambling on tv, go to the track, go to the casinos, and has slept on the couch since day one in this apt. He is terrible and ignores me now & only wants me out. Meanwhile I paid the rent, security, car payment, food and am minus in my ckg acct. I work part time and am on social security and planned to go to NYC (which is only 100 miles away) with him and driving the car there. He has told me to rent a car (which I’ve always done) and go myself but better give him to rent or he’s throwing me into the street, he told me he hates me, wants me dead and he is a major racist with so much hate towards everyone and with this sick cat he pretends he loves him. I’m surprised he loves animals, I’m kinda scared of this man now and never was scared of anyone. By the way believe it or not I’m in AA and sober and used to go to Al-Anon for 25 yrs, so I don’t know why I’m accepting this unacceptable behavior. There r times I see true evil coming from his eyes and I wonder sometimes if he had been in some mental institution upstate, he has great hate against his X wife and she has been divorced from him do 15 yrs and remarried. I saw the hate and heard his horrible racist remarks even to me calling me such horrible racist names that I never encountered ever in my life and was born here as were my parents and grandparents but calls me terrible horrible things and got much worse since moving here plus with my very sick cat if I had the money I wud just get a cab and go. He moved all his stuff in here first but most if not all of my stuff is still in storage and one of the things he promised me was that my stuff would be moved in here too & that after moving here we would get along so much better because this is a beautiful apt and for the first time in 2 yrs I feel human, but see that his plan (and I may be paranoid from all this is to drive me out of here since day one when he got so much more abusive and has been fighting with me 24/7 even if I ask a question, been sleeping on the couch since I moved in, and has done nothing but been so cruel, so mean and truly believe he only wanted me here for the rent and security and car payment so he could move in here. I am open to any suggestions of what to do and how, it would be easy and make sense to just say get out, but I can’t until August and was even planning on going back to Florida where my husband is but in my gut I don’t think that’s a good idea, and am hopefully supposed to get some of Aunts inheritance money that was left over, but that’s going to take time and if this keeps up I won’t be able to function and I’m 66 yrs old applied for zillions of Apts in NYC but am on so many waiting lists and even applied for a rent voucher I can use anywhere but I might have to wait up to a year. As far as shelters most won’t take me, woman and children first and none take pets. I feel like I’m living in hell and learned thru the 12 steps also that this man is very ill and very dangerous to my mind more than anything and actually gets off on hurting me because after he fights with me he sings and whistles like he’s happy he hurt me, and almost acts joyful. I don’t believe he ever loved me and that he took advantage of my goodness and being kind and loving never holding resentments but now I am afraid to say anything to him for the fear that I feel is danger plus he also changes into different personalities almost every half an hr even his voice changes into different accents and is getting worse. I see my part in this is reacting to him and yelling back now which I never did, and I should have dumped him months ago when I saw he had major cruelty and said horrible things to me then. Was I that desperate ??? Someone did say to me after he abandoned me on top of a mountain knowing I had no way to get food to work no public transport that if I ever talked to him again then anything that happened afterward is my fault not
His, I never should have talked to him after that it would have been different if I was living in NYC with public transport or had a vehicle and lived where there were stores but up in the boonies alone on a mountain???? I don’t know what to do first there is so much & he is so cruel that it’s 90 degrees out and with a sick cat and not being so nervous about everything he turns off the a/c in 90 degrees but when he’s here and I’m not I come in and it’s freezing its all about him with no compromises he completely took over this apt from the second he moved in with tons of clutter which is all his stuff. Meanwhile I have beautiful antiques, art work calligraphy from my father that has not been moved here but now I’m glad and have a very small closet for my clothes and gave him a huge closet when he only has 7 pieces of clothing all my clothes are stuffed together in this tiny closet and most of my stuff is still in a suitcase since I’m not allowed to put anything in his closet or in all the junk he brought here that looks like something from Sanford and Son, none of my artwork has been put up and none of my art supplies are here In fact mostly everything here is his plus I have a beautiful new bed in storage but he told me he wants his bed here since he did so many woman on it, that’s only one of the major hurts he has said plus this bed is so old and put together with duck tape and hurts, but he don’t care. I’m sorry for this very long text but for the first time in my life have I ever felt like I was being tortured and the cruelty I feel is so terrible that one has to be blind to not see he used me for the money to get in here, took over immediately, when it was supposed to be a partnership, threatening to have me removed from the lease, and acting much much worse since we moved in and his ego is also so sky high telling me he’s going out again to gamble and pick up a woman that he can get anyone, all I want is to be gone and to never again accept any kind of cruelty but this one is torture again. Please help with suggestions I’m at my wits end here & have not created a support system here yet than you and bless you with this topic, no one should ever have to go thru this torture with anyone plus my cat who is dying too, it’s terrible.
Laura K says
Did you leave this abusive man? Sounds like torture.
Mary says
Dear Linda:
My apologies for the long absence.
I hope this message finds you well.
I cannot believe it’s been almost a year since I last checked this particular article and the comments. I hope you are doing better in your situation, and await a response from you.
YellowYam says
I think you’re being pre-mature to exclude distance from God as a reason for bullying. He’s not being bullied physically. And he may not even be receiving verbal bullying in person. Perhaps his entire problem extends from a spiritual cause. I would not say that one deserves evil spirits, but perhaps God has allowed those spirits to bully Mark so he learns to live his life differently. People who say this kind of thing sometimes have very little substance behind their claims; it’s all inference and experience. I don’t believe this kind of thing is a “chemical imbalance.”
I think he should find some religious satisfaction, going to church and trying to find a spiritual surrounding that’s loving instead of bullying.
victoria says
I had to reply to this article . Specifically the quote , hurt people hurt people I grew up in a big family one of six girls and a boy. My father was physically and mentally very abusive some family members say he sexually abused them but I don’t recall that. I was also brutally bullied in school. I with drew within myself and had obsessive thoughts of dark things, I lived in constant fear I never once thought of hurting another person all my pain was stored in my hurting heart. I would not even hurt any living thing my empathy was and is overwhelming I guess you could say I continued to hurt myself . I did everything I could to get better and I have. I believe some people are born without a conscious or they dont develop one. I never wanted to cause anyone pain because I knew even as a very small child that it was cruel and wrong and more importantly that it would hurt someone . Maybe I was lucky but I prefer to believe that we have a choice and I chose that voice of empathy not indifference to others. Being abused is a push over the edge for those who are already born damaged.
Mary Rose says
This is amazing. Considering your experience, your resulting insight and empathy is nothing short of astounding to me. Thank you for sharing. I honestly am left a little speechless.
YellowYam says
When the only prospect going forward for your threatened self involves projecting negativity, you do what it takes to survive. And for the others, they are merely unknowledgable. Stupidity is selfish, not necessarily to the contrary.
crocro says
You wrote an interesting article.
I agree with Ellen,
kids a mean.
People too.
I was looking on the internet but only very few people reported hurting others intentionnaly. This do not correspond to what I see in a work place on a daily basis.
Mary Rose,
Some people will become mean because they had too much bad experience in life. But most of them wont.
The people that hurts other mostly are the one who doesnt understand that pain because they never feel it themselves. This is my opinion.
Mary Rose says
Crocro:
Hi there:
To me, pain is like any energy…it is an expression of energy. Energy cannot be destroyed, but it can be transmuted or transformed into another form or kind of energy. It’s entropy, really. We are dynamic beings and I believe that sometimes, we do not have a choice when it comes to feeling pain. But we do have a choice regarding how that pain will manifest in the world…whether as new pain, transferred to another, or as something else…and by virtue of it being received as something else, by someone else – even if they know nothing of your pain – of the source of it, or the cause – it will become something else, and so will the person who transmitted it as something other than the same pain.
It’s like breaking an algorithm and writing new code. It’s literally the hardest thing in the world to do: To rewire one’s conditioning when the conditions have been set in a horribly stunted and painful place. But it is not impossible to do this. And the more people do it – the more people will learn how from others – and the better the conditions will become for everyone. The more pain will be released and transmuted, and the less power it will have as both an idea, and a reality, over all of us.
Thank you for your comment.
And my apologies for my late reply.
Disha Mody says
I agree. We dont have control over the energy we feel, but we do have control over its expression in the world. Yes, breaking the painful energy down and building a different kind of energy from the broken parts which is both, beautiful and meaningful, is the challenge we all face at some point in life.
Ellen says
I know a lot of people who have been intentionally cruel, both physically and mentally. For anyone who thinks that people aren’t intentionally cruel, look at what happens everyday in schools across the country; kids bullying other kids on a notorious level. Having been bullied all through school, I have to say it was all intentional. If it is not intentional, and there is a valid disorder, then why aren’t bullies removed from school? They are all havoc wreakers! You can ask someone why he/she chooses to be mean or cruel to someone, but asking a bullying child, you won’t get a straight answer, because they wouldn’t be able to tell you anything, except “’cause I feel like it”, or “he’s ugly”, etc. The excuses that I would get from teachers and other bystanders is “just ignore it, and it will stop”, or “she does it because you gave her a response”, or ” he does it because he envies you”. Throughout my whole life, I have heard all kinds of excuses for bullies, etc., and I have always believed that these lines were just a load of crap.
Because I have had negative experiences from bullying and other cruelties, I can be empathetic because I know how it feels, but I really don’t know what I can do to help fix anything because I was never given any kind of inputs or examples on how to do that. I have been lectured and probably been given material on how to help people, but I have never been shown “hands-on”. No one has ever sided with me, defended me, or stuck up for me in any situations. I strongly feel that if people have been doing that in these situations (instead of encouraging it to progress), I would probably be more inclined to properly intervene and help in the right way.
What is almost ironic, in my case, is as a child, I used to be forgiving because I was told to be. But the problem is I was never clearly taught what it meant to forgive people. Everyone used to tell me that when a person wrongs you, you forgive them-end of story. Now, I am hearing that forgiving is about letting go and moving on, not necessarily letting the person off the hook. So, when I was in probably high school, I found myself to be less forgiving because of the constant bullying, because it was never clear to me what it really meant to forgive.
For everyone who has bullied me, I don’t think that I would ever sympathize with them if something were to come up in their lives that was bad or painful. I have moved on, they are not in my life, now. I think that for the sympathy part, I think that I would feel less for someone who bullied me because I think they need to see how it feels to them. I think as far as asking why someone is cruel, they will never be able to give a straight or honest answer because they will probably never grow out of it, and it will just show up in different forms in various stages of their lives.
suzanne humphreys hogg says
Dear Mary Rose,
Thank you for your excellent article. You made only one questionable comment . I have not witnessed the transformation of cruel to kind in people. Some people just do not have the capacity to be kind.
Mary Rose says
Hi Suzanne:
I would agree with you that there are some who seem incapable of insight and kindness. They are the ones I cannot ‘feel’.
And there’s a reason. In a sense, we are all being conditioned to be cruel and apathetic. It is a strategy implemented in order to maintain control by those who seek to maintain a stranglehold over what they perceive as assets.
The cruelest thing a person can do, in my opinion, would be to intentionally abuse their power in order to hurt (deprive, torture, rape, murder) others. Like a priest who sexually abuses a child. These people – in my Justice Mind – deserve to be put down. But my compassion mind – the side that decommissioned my own sense of cruelty, insists that we are all a product of conditioning.
When I think about it, cruelty is what’s on the menu every day because of the people who ‘run this’. And that they call their sometimes insane actions ‘in the best interests of the people’, ‘for the well being of the citizens’, ‘fighting for democracy’ means nothing, because if they served any interest other than their own (to perpetuate fear and ‘the world is cruel’ mentality – the ultimate cruelty), their actions would speak that truth. And they don’t.
Our interests – the best interests of freedom, the people, the children, the earth that sustains us, other beings, etc – are all being compromised for the sickest reasons. Those who ‘run this’ are teaching acceptance of cruelty; of fear and oppression as a rule. It serves their bottom line – as disgusting as that is to wrap one’s head around. And it trickles down as the example to follow, to our children. Even these ‘anti-bullying’ campaigns in a round about and very manipulative way, preach acceptance that ‘this is the way it is’; here is how you should deal with it. And even if they claim ‘it is wrong to bully’, their actions endorse ‘bullying’ in ways that are unfathomable to the average person.
I know we have never met, but allow me to introduce myself as a person who used to be apathetic and cruel. I was conditioned that way. I decommissioned this part of myself and now I am incapable of cruelty. So please know it is possible to do this.
Thank you for your words. They moved me.
Heather Irvine says
I found your article very interesting, i am a nurse but i have no formal psychology training. Walking away feels like abandonment to me, I feel responsible, I feel i have an obligation to look after people.
My children have grown and left home they are happy independant and nurturing adults and i am very proud. I have a very sucessful career and a beautiful home, but I am very unhappy in my relationship. My husband is an only child , he had a very happy childhood, his parents split up when he was 18 that was just before he met me. I have always blamed his issues on their seperation but 25yrs on and I am tired. He comes across as a charasmatic and charming man . Privately he is selfish and cruel.. I have worked very hard my whole life and achieved many qualifications , but i didnt neglect my family, I kept house raised the children and paid the bills, while he drank and overindulged. I treated his drinking as an illness and i think i became his mother in some strange way. But even though he has been sober for 5 years his attitude hasnt changed, He doesnt give me any money towards bills or food he doesnt clean up after himself and has no respect for me. If I moan he says ” is it talking”. He is jealous and resentful. He can be very nice I dont want him to sound like a monster. I want to understand his behaviour.
Maria says
I can tell you that he sounds useless even though hes nice at times, Its time you know your value. I hope you do because I have dealt with this as well and completely took my rose colored glasses off. What he does is a mechanism to keep you close as he probably feels you enjoy helping him and its natural for you however it has exhausted you so it is a tiny lie turned into a huge one ready to kill your self esteem and bright light you can put to good use in your children,church, work etc. Let go and let God handle him hes not your child (anymore).
Jen says
This article shed a great deal of light to me. My husband (currently separated) has met someone and I just couldn’t figure out why he treated me so cruelly yesterday. I gave him what he wanted and allowed the desperation with no problems & have began to move forward with my own life. But I just didnt know exactly why he would treat me so mean after giving him what he wanted. Until I read this article. I have always taken his past & childhood into consideration. He was sentenced to a decade in prison at the age of 17. I have to tell you though, he has been lying to me for years and blaming me. It’s refreshing to know his baggage is his own and now that he is gone, I get to work on recovering from him instead of working trying to fix it.
Jennifer says
look I don’t know what makes people intentionally cruel but I’m glad that I don’t carry this effd up trait!
kel says
I have been in a situation with a loved one that I am so giving and loving. In return I am told I am not because the way they see it is how I come across. But I disagree I don’t see that it is unloving to visit nearly everyday, pay this persons way on outings, tell them and show them I love them and resolving any issue they have with genuine communication , if I ask to be taken for how I mean things or ask for something emotionally as I see this person isn’t a mind reader I get yelled and screamed at for causing trouble and accused of wanting everything my way.. I never get my way for anything, and I see it as working to grow together. I got accused of lieing for misunderstanding something in the conversation, even though I told them I misunderstood them they still accused me of lieing. If I say my feelings in a nice way I get yelled and screamed at saying all I do is cause problems and its all my fault why they get angry, if I don’t communicate my needs how are they even given a choice to give that to me , they even threaten to hurt themself when I cry when I’m yelled at , I tried to stop them then they said I wouldn’t let u get me to that point to hurt myself , i said good cause I wouldn’t want that I am not like that… I feel so exhausted and I feel this person is quite cruel to me and they can’t see it. It males me doubt my perception as I am always told how to feel and I say that is unfair they then say they didn’t say that.. they tell me if they are that bad a person then leave them alone, I’ve been with this person for two yrs and what was a loving relationship has now turned to this, we did have our ups and downs but it seems to be getting worse.. any advice?
j dee says
Walk away! If it does not feel right. You know, usually immediately too, when you should, instincts and all. There is a world of possibility right outside that f®ont door. Whats that Dr. Suess book? Oh yeah, ….. Oh the Places You’ll Go!
Wendy says
“The Verbally Abusive Relationship” by Patricia Evans may be of help to you. ‘All the best.
Frances Patrick Gama says
Hi!, :-), recently in the twin tower jail in Los Angeles, an innocent prisoner, witnessed another inmate killing another inmate. The cruelty of man is so prevalent, an none so worse when you report it, to the Aclu an the tv stations an you hear nothingin return. It’s almost a cruel silent hushing. It’s so sad. I believe that most moms are not paying attention to their children. Some are working to survive an the children are left to, who knows who?, to care for them. I believe,that even a psychotic can learn to do right with a good an smart mother to train him up. Too many children left to the wrong people. Even some moms will be blind to correct the wrong that they see in their children an the wrong that someone is trying to show them. Some parents hav wit tougher than others. To raise these children is a full-time position. Nevertheless it’s the most important position in the world. God help us all
Bob says
Hurt people hurt people.
John says
Mary, pleased to make your acquaintance today. Blessings to you.
John
C says
Omg John intentional cruelty is everywhere…especially in children, but often in adults. Were you home-schooled on the planet mars or something?
John Ptacek says
Hello Mary,
You have written a thoughtful article, but your way of thinking cuts you off from forgiveness. Here’s the statement that brings this point home to me.
“I have little sympathy for people who choose to hurt others simply because they are in pain.”
In saying this, you assume that people actually choose to hurt others. I do not think that this is the case. I don’t believe anyone is intentionally cruel. This is merely your interpretation of human behavior, and one that prevents you from entering a state of forgiveness, or in a larger sense, love. We do what we do because we can’t do otherwise. There is no “you” apart from your genetics and environmental conditioning. Had you been the “intentionally cruel” people you talk about, you would have done exactly as they did. There would have been no superior “you” to bail you out. That “you” doesn’t exist, except in your imagination.
You are the victim of your lack of sympathy, not the one you are judging. Sympathy for some is not sympathy at all. If you select those who are worthy of your sympathy, then you are merely passing judgment. None of us fallible human beings is in a position to pass judgment on another. If you feel superior to those you are judging to be intentionally cruel, perhaps instead you should simply consider yourself more fortunate.
JTK says
Total nonsense. Trite high-minded sloppy thinking. The facts contradict your opinions.
You don’t believe anyone is intentionally cruel? Have you ever met a small child? Intentional cruelty is standard procedure for children. Intentional cruelty is something that people deal with and deal out often. You should be able to remember times when you were intentionally cruel. If you won’t admit it then you are a liar.
Get off your high horse.
John Ptacek says
We’re all riding the same horse, JTK. Intention is not part of our repertoire. We all do the best we can with what we’ve been given. No one’s better than anyone else. That’s my opinion.
Here’s a fuller explanation of my viewpoint: http://www.johnptacek.com/choice.html
Thanks for weighing in.
tiggyboy says
I believe in facts, an that some brains have bad genes, even murderous ones, thats whyy a child has to be monitored continuously an any adverse tendency must be nipped in the bud. Dahmer wasnt watched properly, neither was Richard Ramirez, sorry folks theres no way around not watching a child, even the poor, ither we do this or they are going to, as they say ‘slip threw the’ they didnt slip threw at all, we just missed it an didnt deal with it right there an then.
victoria says
Yes John people can be intentionally cruel. No doubt about it.
Lets_say_Kurt says
Apologies for using a bad name. John is wrong, although is web site contains some interesting thoughts. Cruelty and emotional abuse exist. I feel the Canadian author of this article is right on. She is right on about the causes, right on about the consequences, and totally correct about the human proclivity to share feelings.
Let me share part of my story. In the US, there are Christian fundamentalists. I have no problem or beef with most of them. However, there is a branch named Reconstructionists. To give you an inkling, they believe disobedient children should be stoned to death, adulterous women should be stoned to death, and that gays should be stoned to death.
Having been a crime victim in Ohio, I moved to California. I had PTSD, which in practice means you are absent-minded (technical term: dissociating). “There was something vulnerable about me” is what people would have said before endless psychobabble started dominating the airwaves.
Yet, I did my work: producing a piece of Artificial intelligence software. My manager then started some trip I had ‘ an authority problem’. In his terrifying reconstructionist world, that meant: ‘you are a commie pinko secular humanist Euro’ (I was born in Holland).
He purposefully assigned me to alter my software in a ridiculous way, making derisive comments about my national origin. He displayed this behavior to a female colleague as well, noting women belong in the home and not in the workplace. Kim sat there and just took the abusive slight, too flabbergasted to say anything.
Long and short of it: he got me dismissed, and, already having PTSD, I wound up homeless with an IQ of 130, a (moderate) talent for mathematics..
Oh yeah, this guy had no academic talents at all, although he had cut out a niche of some kind for himself in ” Christian linguistics”.
Tell me that is not cruel.
Tell me that is not deliberate.
This man was morally crazy. And, quite in contradiction with what John says, some overaccepting stance about not judging, I judge him. This jerk’s actions cost American charities dearly. I had to be gotten of he streets and provided with care. You get a free shrink. All in all, this man has cost the community hundreds of thousands of dollars. (real story much more complicated).
Tell me as an adult he was under no obligation to examine the cruel and inhumane beliefs he grew up with, and conclude that God might not be an enormous sociopath and punishing parent in the sky, but maybe a little milder.
Did I examine the beliefs I grew up with? I did.
Have I sometimes been cruel to others? Yes, I have been. For reasons I examined. And I am deeply sorry for those occasions. (Details not given for personal reasons).
Mary says
Thank you for sharing this. Amazing balance in your words. I will read this a few more times to let it sink in.