All of the best dog trainers work without food. That’s what I had always been told. Dogs are naturally disposed to want to please us as their “masters,” or so goes the common lore in traditional dog training. But I’m a positive trainer, I use food all the time to train my dogs with excellent results. So what gives? Should I be using food or not when training my dog?
One website I visited characterizes the use of food in dog training as the “‘Biggest Scam’ in Dog Training Today.” The author, Kevin Salem, goes on to make additional claims, such as, “Relying heavily on treats to teach a dog isn’t healthy or natural” and “using food as a bribe rarely teaches your dog the respect factor. Sure, it builds trust, love and affection, but never respect!”
Kevin Salem is not alone. Hundreds of dog trainers still believe in concepts such as “pack hierarchies” and the idea that your dog must “respect” (read fear) his handler. Even currently in-vogue television dog trainer Cesar Millan preaches a version of this with his “calm, assertive” approach to “leadership” with dogs.
Our success with using food as part of a program of reinforcement and science-based training with our dogs stands in stark contrast to the claims of these “traditional” trainers. Their claims that using food is a “scam” or “cheating” when we train simply don’t hold up given our real experience with four of our own dogs.
A Question of Technique?
Traditional trainers who object to the use of food often cite the many problems that using food creates with a dog. Among the common arguments against using treats are:
- Your dog will only listen to you when you are actually holding a treat.
- You will spoil your dog. Spoiled dogs are prone to turn on dogs and people.
- You will have to have treats with you 24/7 to get your dog to do anything.
- You are unknowingly making your dog more dominant and aggressive.
- Your dog could get sick, fat or have diarrhea from so many treats.
- Dogs cannot be successfully trained for competition or durable behaviours using food.
- Your dog may not care for treats or become overly excited around food.
- Dogs trained using food are unreliable and don’t really learn to respond to the handler.
- Your dog will obey based on what type of treats you are offering.
- Your dog will learn to beg for food or get into a habit of counter surfing.
- You’ll make your dog demanding, and he will bark/jump/whine or poke at your hands for treats
Most, if not all, of these objections speak more to an incorrect use of food in a good training program rather than the food itself being a problem.
Using food in your training program is meant to be a motivator and not a distracting influence with your dog. Any number of books are available that describe methods to use food successfully to motivate dogs to learn and perform. Most of these methods include a reduction in the use of the food so that behaviour is reliable even without food rewards present.
Most remarkable to me are the claims that behaviours trained using food are not durable or cannot be attained to a high enough level to be competitive in dog sports. In fact, two of our last four dogs have reached the level of Canadian Agility Champion and my Tiramisu is currently working on her second championship title in dog agility.
There are now thousands of dogs worldwide that trained with food using positive methods, and these dogs who have earned the highest levels of excellence in dogs sports of all kinds, from agility to obedience, tracking to draft dog (pulling sleds and wagons), schutzhund, ring sport, and many others.
And it’s not just sports and recreation that these dogs excel in. Dogs have been successfully trained using food and positive reinforcement to be search and rescue dogs, drug and law enforcement dogs, service dogs for the blind and physically disabled, therapy dogs, and more. These are jobs on which lives may depend and they are entrusted to dogs trained using food and positive methods.
Perhaps it’s not the food at all but the manner in which it is being used by trainers in their training that can make it ineffective, even detrimental to the dog’s training and relationship with the handler.
Given that such positive and negative examples can be offered, clearly the food itself can’t be the problem.
A Question of Culture?
So what is the disconnect here? Why do so many dog trainers and dog fanciers so strongly resist the use of food in working with their dogs? Perhaps it’s a question of culture. I often hear the claim by traditional trainers that dogs should respond to your training because they love, respect, or want to please you as their handler. The assertion here seems to be that it is natural for dogs to want to perform for us just for the occasional pat on the head or some internal instinctive drive to please us. But is this true?
To date, science has uncovered nothing resembling an instinctive drive in dogs to please their master. What we do know is that dogs, as they have evolved and have been selectively bred by humans, are more like puppies than their ancestor the wolf. Raymond Coppinger, in his book Dogs, refers to this as Neoteny, a retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. So when they become adults, our dogs seem to retain a need for a family setting and attention from some guiding person or dog. But this is not a “desire to please” nor is it simple genetics.
Consider something for a moment: From the first minute they arrive in our homes, our dogs learn that everything they need to stay alive comes from us. Food, water, exercise, companionship, security, these are all under our control as their trainers and handlers. The one thing not available to our dogs is the freedom to leave. They don’t have that choice. Is it any wonder that they will eventually comply with our wishes? I’m sure we all see the implications here and they need not be dark or menacing.
The simple fact is that we can get dogs to do almost anything without giving them treats because their next actual meal may depend on it. It may take a while, but if we’re clear about it, they will do it eventually. And so, without being able to have a conversation with them, how do we distinguish between them having a “desire to please us” and knowing clearly that non-compliance will bring unwanted and potentially severe consequences? The answer is, we can’t.
Bribery or Payment?
It seems entirely possible that our predisposition to denying our dogs food in return for their cooperation reflects our own human need to have our dog’s prove their “love” and “respect” for us. Our insistence that a well-trained dog is one that performs only for intangible rewards seems both unrealistic and idealistic considering how we ourselves place material value on our own efforts by asking for wages for our efforts.
Viewed another way, training a dog to work without food seems like we are withholding pay from them; like we are getting something for nothing. How clever of us! Aren’t we the gifted trainers. And we could probably feel good about that if we didn’t consider that something else seen in human relationships — exploitation.
Does one have to use food in training to be a good trainer? No. Does using food make one a bad trainer or a “cheater”? No. Food can be a tremendous motivator and create both strong performance and strong bonds between handler and dog. But it must be used properly to achieve these things as part of an overall training approach that focuses on reward for performance and not leading or bribery with the food.
There is a lot of great information on positive training and using food to reinforce your dog for desired behavior both at your local bookstore and on the Internet. The use of compulsive methods (denial of food, corrections, etc.) in training dogs has been shown to cause aggression problems in dogs, create relationships problems, and unmotivated dogs. The worst problem with proper food training is that your dog might gain weight. Well, just cut back on dinner then!
The rewards of a happy and motivated training partnership with your dog make learning more about this worth the effort. At least did for us.
Happy Training!
Photo Credits
“Polite Request” millicent_bystander 2008 @ Flickr.com
“Will Work for Food” US Air Force 2010
“In Our Care” turtlemom4bacon 2010 @ Flickr.com
“Happy Dog” quinn.anya 2009 @ Flickr.com
hornblower says
love the post but I shouldn’t have read the comments.
Must not read comments. Must not read comments. Must not read comments…..
Donna says
I just want to make two little comments. First, Cesar Millan has never claimed to be a “dog trainer.” If you have watched his show with any regularity, he does say that he trains people and rehabilitates dogs. Respect does not mean fear. If using the analogy that Eric uses, respect equals fear, does that mean that you fear yourself if you respect yourself? If I respect somebody or something, fear is the furthest thing from my mind.
Me says
Actually, he said that he wants to (be the world’s best dog trainer!” And I quote him.
But since then, he’s stopped calling himself that. Now he calls himself a behaviorist and a psychologist, even though he has the qualifications for neither and he follows out dated and disproven psychology; if you can even still call that psychology.
If you knew how to recognise dog stress, appeasement and displacement signals, you wouldn’t be saying that dogs don’t fear him. Dogs don’t just fear him, they are terrified of him. He has to physically force dogs to comply because he can’t get them to otherwise. That is not respect.
Marsha says
Sorry. But I actually agree with Kevin of Dog Secrets.
I don’t think you can get results with just ANY training. At least that”s what Mr. Brad stated in his response to Mr. Salem.
All treatments don’t even work on us. How can it work on dogs? Besides, Mr. Salem never said that he is completely against the use of food. He says you may do so at the very END of your training exercises.
I know dog people. This guy truly loves and cares for dogs. And if you read his heartbreaking story of why he does what he does, it might change your mind…
Darcie says
Interesting video. The Pit Bull is observably neither “relaxed” nor “having fun” despite your claim that every dog should learn how to do so. Perhaps you just hadn’t gotten to that portion of the training yet? Kristen and Teresa are right on – it is visibly stressed and would likely rather be anywhere but near the two Labradors who clearly haven’t got an appropriate social skill to share between the pair of them. That being said, kudos to you, Kevin, if you achieved the result the owner’s were looking for, hopefully allowing them to live a peace, happy existence with their (presumably) beloved dog.
There is a time and place for both training methods – reward vs. corrective. But I agree with Eric (and Eric and I don’t always agree on everything! lol) – it’s not a question of whether one or the other WILL work, it’s simply a matter of which we individually choose to employ.
Teresa says
Wow Kevin, just watched your video and honestly YOU are not reading what that Pit bull is telling you at all. You have one fearful dog and 2 pushy labs. Before and after clearly shows the pittie is stressed beyond belief and I bet a $ to a donut, undo that leash and she/he will clearly take off with 2 labs hot on it’s ass. Then this dog will be back to the 1st clip – fear and lashing out as that’s all it knows for defense.
Positive reinforcement is a very useful training tool when used properly. Working with my own dogs, all 6 of them, they are welcomed anywhere and all trained with treats as a behavior molding tool. Yes, if warranted, they have received corrections which is a quick scruff but those are few and very far between. And no, I do not carry a pocket full of treats, they understand their role.
I might add, I use this method of training at the shelter I work at. Excellent results including those who have some form of behavioral issues.
Me says
A “quick scruff” is a quick way to get bitten. Tell me, do you do this at the shelter to 100 lbs dogs with aggression issues who aren’t first rendered helpless by a muzzle, choke collar or other means of stopping them from appropriately retaliating for your grabbing of their scruff? Perhaps you should read Eric’s other article as well, such as, Selling Snake Oil: Stopping Behaviour Doesn’t Make a “Good Dog” and Bad Dog – Handling Problem Behaviours. And maybe you should stop training at the shelter and hire a professional dog trainer for help with your own dogs if you can’t get a dog’s compliance unless you scruff them.
If a person has to use force to train a dog then there’s failure with their training methods and it’s not fair to the dog to punish them for the human’s failure.
Kathryn says
Another great one, Eric. I know whose dog I’d wanna be.
Kristen says
Okay, I bit, and I looked at the video. The leashed dog in the first clip looks worried and anxious, not overprotective to my eye.
Next, I agree that bribery is not training and is a misuse of good behavior modification techniques. I’ve seen Eric with his dogs and I’ve seen some rewards, but no bribes.
I agree that most pet owners have modest goals, and there are many different avenues to achieve the end product of happy companion. However one simple reality. Pet owners are going to feed their dogs. Why not handle that food as a resource? Properly managed, you won’t need to use punishment or corrections. And it’s a lot more fun too.
My girlie, now 2 has never been punished, and due to her health problems treats are few and far between. But I make her work for everything she wants; consequently my very pushy girl has developed into a lovely dog to live with.
So good luck with your methods,
Kristen
JC Burcham, DVM says
Chiming in as a veterinarian with a special interest in behavior. Enjoyed the post and agree with it. It’s interesting reading Kevin’s responses. Opinions and individual experiences have their place, but I have the most confidence in training methods rooted in behavior science. How mammals (humans, dogs, etc.) learn is a well-recognized field of study.
Found the post thru twitter – you can follow me too: http://www.twitter.com/oaholathe/
Kevin Salem says
My dog is already trained bud. Probably more than your kids. hahaha..
I don’t think you really really read what I’m all about.
After all, I advocate the Diverse Method. I never said that you should never ever use treats. Again, let the facts speak for itself.
Fact #1: We have our voice and praise with us not chicken or beef jerky.
Fact #2: Most dog owners don’t really care about the highest level of competition. The just want the dog not to jump, nip, yap nonstop, don’t snap, don’t fight and don’t take a dump on my persian rug.
Fact #3: You will never ever get it. You love bribing dogs with treats and then ask the poor dog to do things for you because you said so. That, to me, is Deceptive Reinforcement. It is NOT positive reinforcement at all.
But then again, let’s do this.
Here are my skills and my video clip of what I am all about. I want to see yours. Hey, talk is cheap. 🙂
http://www.dogsecrets.com/clips.html
Oh, make sure you watch both clips you guys. Look closely to see if I throw meat balls left and right so the dog won’t make look dumb. hahaha…..
Me says
Kevin, I hope you’re training dogs for free and not accepting money as bribes in return for your work. If not, please stop accepting payment at your job because it’s just bribery and you’re obviously very against that. You should work for free.
Signed a dog trainer and user of a service dog trained with “bribery” who still complies whether I offer a treat or not.
insideoutdog traning says
Thank you for the video example, now I know you truly are not getting what everyone on these replies are trying to tell you. Oh and those dogs are stressed as hell… Great way to market and YouTube views tho, have to hand that too you. I have a video of a dog who crawls backwards between my legs then shoots out and catches a Frisbee then drops the Frisbee and takes a bite on a bit suit. But none of this matters and it is all a mute point. Dog training is a way of being with the dogs, not just the techniques.
Eric Brad says
Hi Kevin –
If there’s one thing I have learned in my many years with dogs, it’s that all dog training works eventually. The beauty of dogs as companions is that there isn’t just one way to teach them. It may also be their curse.
I tell you in all seriousness, Kevin, I could train YOUR dogs successfully with food and in less than a day. I’ve done it many times with dogs I’ve haven’t met before.
It’s not a question of whether your training or mine can WORK. It’s more a question of which methods we each choose to employ with our dogs.
Perhaps one day your agility champion dogs and mine will run at the same trial and we can marvel at how such wonderful animals can get to the same place by such different roads.
I wish you well in your training.
Eric Brad
Kevin Salem says
Look, I too have seen dogs that were trained by the use of treats, but the odds are strongly against you. I know, I know, you disagree and can give me lots of great “show off dogs” that were bribed left and right and then forced to perform without ANY pay, but so can I.
Thank you,
Kevin
Dog Secrets Inc.
Sandra says
I was a traditional trainer for most of my adult life. I didn’t seriously believe that there were any alternatives. I used choke chains and pinch collars and got very good compliance with my dogs without much effort. Then I adopted an adult dog with “issues”, dog aggression being one. I took him to a professional trainer. The problem was that I was unable to use the level of “correction” that she said that I needed to fix him. She was right, I just couldn’t.
I contacted a few other trainers who used positive methods, but didn’t see the value in what they were offering. I eventually found myself at a clicker workshop that explained, among other things, the theory of positive reinforcement. I was not an immediate convert, because it was contrary to what I had always believed. But I couldn’t argue with the science behind it. That was 4 or so years ago and I’m a convert now. I use a clicker and food in my training and I can take my dog places I never thought I would.
To claim that training with food doesn’t work just isn’t true. Sure, there are lots of people who use food rewards to train their dogs and don’t do it very well. There are lots of people who use force and coercion and don’t do that very well, either. Why not choose a method to train that is fun for both?
jason says
Kevin,
I think many trainers use the word “treat training” or bribery and I use to believe the same way. Wake up man its 2012 and science proves using food and a marker are extremely effective. This whole pack thing and using force is tired and old concept.
jason says
Kevin,
Your killing me with your responses here. So lets get straight to it. Using force to train a dog is simple abuse. There is no other way around this, and when you talk about bribery with treats just proves you don’t know nor use positive methods with your dogs. I train protection dog for a living so trust me when I say I have used force in the past. When you say you have “show off dogs” you can produce as well, and I am going to have say you don’t. There is no way you can use force or bribery and get the result some of the top dog trainers are getting. Hell, you can’t even get the same results people on youtube are getting. So again there is no way you can train with the pack method and get the same result. The reason is simple, when using force your training the dog to react from outside forces, when training dogs using food or toys your training the dog from within and creating a habit of learning. Kevin, ten years from now people using your method will not be around anymore because even public knowledge is growing on this subject. Have a great day
Dina says
You are a di*k Kevin. Dogs on your “famous” video are stressed and not comfortable. You should learn to read stress signals in dogs.
And, oh, by the way – nice toes. 😀 Didn’t you learn that safety is No. 1 when working with animals, and that – as a trainer – you should set an example for your students what to wear when working with dogs? You, or worse – your student – could seriously get injured working in open shoes. I do not allow flip-flops, sandals and open shoes at my classes.
Anyway, I use food in training as well as toys and life rewards and praise, and my dogs comply with or without it.